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Everyone wants to talk about the AI use case. Nobody wants to talk about the work that makes the use case possible.

Erika Flowers, who led NASA’s AI readiness initiative, has a great metaphor for this on the Invisible Machines podcast. Her family builds houses, and before they could install a high-tech steel roof, they spent a week building scaffolding, setting up tarps, rigging safety harnesses, positioning dumpsters for debris. The scaffolding wasn’t the job. But without it, the job couldn’t happen.

Flowers on where most organizations are with AI right now:

We are trying to just climb up on these roofs with our most high tech pneumatic nail gun and we got all these tools and stuff and we haven’t clipped off to our belay gear. We don’t have the scaffolding set up. We don’t have the tarps and the dumpsters to catch all the debris. We just want to get up there. That is the state of AI and transformation.

The scaffolding is the boring stuff: data integration, governance, connected workflows, organizational readiness. It’s context engineering at the enterprise level. Before any AI feature can do real work, someone has to make sure it has the right data, the right permissions, and the right place in a process. Nobody wants to fund that part.

But Flowers goes further. She argues we’re not just skipping the scaffolding—we’re automating the wrong things entirely. Her example: accounting software uses AI to help you build a spreadsheet faster, then you email it to someone who extracts the one number they actually needed. Why not just ask the AI for the number? We’re using new technology to speed up old workflows instead of asking whether the workflow should exist at all.

Then she gets to the interesting question—who’s supposed to design all of this?

I don’t think it exists necessarily with the roles that we have. It’s going to be a lot closer to Hollywood… producer, director, screenwriter. And I don’t mean as metaphors, I mean literally those people and how they think and how they do it because we’re in a post software era.

She lists therapists, psychologists, wedding planners, dance choreographers. People who know how to choreograph human interactions without predetermined inputs. That’s a different skill set than designing screens, and I think she’s onto something.

Why AI Scaffolding Matters More than Use Cases ft Erika Flowers

We’re in a moment when organizations are approaching agentic AI backwards, chasing flashy use cases instead of building the scaffolding that makes AI agents actually work at scale. Erika Flowers, who led NASA’s AI Readiness Initiative and has advised Meta, Google, Netflix, and Intuit, joins Robb and Josh for a frank and funny conversation about what's broken in enterprise AI adoption. She dismantles the myth of the "big sexy AI use case" and explains why most AI projects fail before they start. The trio makes the case that we're entering a post-software world, whether organizations are ready or not. Chapters - 0:09 - NASA AI Readiness Explained | Erica Flowers on Agentic AI & Runtimes 1:48 - Why the “Big Sexy AI Use Case” Is a Lie 2:42 - AI Didn’t Start with ChatGPT: What NASA Has Been Doing for 30 Years 4:24 - Why AI Runtimes Matter More Than Any Single Use Case 5:21 - The Hidden AI Problem: Legacy Data, Silos & Organizational Reality 7:13 - The Boring AI That Actually Works (And Why Enterprises Ignore It) 8:10 - The AI Arms Race Nobody Understands 9:22 - AI Scaffolding Explained: The Metaphor Every Leader Needs to Hear 12:12 - AI Readiness Is Cultural Change, Not Just Technology 14:38 - From Parking Lots to Companies: How Simple AI Agents Quietly Scale 17:01 - Why Most AI Features Feel Useless in Real Products 19:08 - Stop Automating Spreadsheets: Ask AI the Question Instead 25:06 - The Post-Software Era: Why Designers Aren’t Enough Anymore 28:33 - UI Is a Medium: How AI Will Absorb Interfaces Entirely 46:24 - Infinite Content, Human Creativity, and the Future After AI Listen and Check out Erika’s podcast, “Flower Power Hour”: https://open.spotify.com/show/15BTSl9fWiH3QTmVAYj6Fd Learn more about Erika at www.helloerikaflowers.com/ ---------- Support our show by supporting our sponsors! This episode is supported by OneReach.ai Forged over a decade of R&D and proven in 10,000+ deployments, OneReach.ai’s GSX is the first complete AI agent runtime environment (circa 2019) — a hardened AI agent architecture for enterprise control and scale. Backed by UC Berkeley, recognized by Gartner, and trusted across highly regulated industries, including healthcare, finance, government and telecommunications. A complete system for accelerating AI adoption - design, train, test, deploy, monitor, and orchestrate neurosymbolic applications (agents). Use any AI models - Build and deploy intelligent agents fast - Create guardrails for organizational alignment - Enterprise-grade security and governance Request free prototype: https://onereach.ai/prototype/?utm_source=youtube&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=podcast_s6e12&utm_content=1 ---------- The revised and significantly updated second edition of our bestselling book about succeeding with AI agents, Age of Invisible Machines, is available everywhere: Amazon — https://bit.ly/4hwX0a5 #InvisibleMachines #Podcast #TechPodcast #AIPodcast #AI #AgenticAI #AIAgents #DigitalTransformation #AIReadiness #AIDeployment #AISoftware #AITransformation #AIAdoption #AIProjects #NASA #AgentRuntime #Innovation #AIUseCase

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